"This is a very cold-weather region and an inhospitable location," Salazar said. Image Via Screen capture from 9jaupdate24x7. This service is provided on News Group Newspapers' Limited's Standard Terms and Conditions in accordance with our Privacy & Cookie Policy. Flight 19 was scheduled to conduct a three-tier journey. FT-74 asked if FT-28 had his emergency IFF gear on, which LT Taylor did not. Ingenuity continued to wake up and communicate with Perseverance during the storm and returned to . At around 3.45pm, Fort Lauderdale's flight tower received a message from Taylor that was obtained by the Naval History and Heritage Command. GFCI outlets are a type of circuit breaker. I think weve put one of aviations greatest mysteries very much to rest, Graham Hawkes, project director of Scientific Search Project, said Friday. Salazar said that the area was known to pilots as Piteraq Alley because of its tendency to spawn severe snowstorms that can arise in minutes called "piteraq" in the Greenland Inuit language. Charles Carroll Taylor, USNR, Flight 19 Instructor, FT-28 at NAS Fort Lauderdale Museum site nasflmuseum.com), DANFS - Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships, Permitting Policy and Resource Management, The 9/11 Terrorist Attacks: 20 Years Later, "Ex Scientia Tridens": The U.S. Tower personnel looked for the planes, but saw no one in sight. You can unsubscribe at any time. ", He said authorities "do not want it found as it's full of bullet holes, finding it will only open another inquiry.". No wreckage was ever found, and the plane's disappearance has been the focus of intense conspiracy theories ever since. "The Sun", "Sun", "Sun Online" are registered trademarks or trade names of News Group Newspapers Limited. However, the weather at Fort Lauderdale was rapidly deteriorating, and LT Taylor radioed that he would proceed on 270-degrees until they reached land or ran out of fuel. Im sure Im in the Keys, but I dont know how far down.. Most of that money has come from Salazar himself, who owns a machinery business in Pasadena, California. The Bermuda Triangle is a region in the north Atlantic Ocean where ships, planes and people are alleged to have mysteriously vanished. The Lost Pirate Kingdom: Bermuda Triangle enigma poised for solving, Bermuda Triangle's most famous mystery unravelled after 76 years, Bermuda Triangle: Major discovery as missing 200-foot ship with bizarre cargo found, Flight 19: Planes similar to missing US aircraft, Laurence Fishburne: Presenter narrates series, Danger: Bermuda Triangle linked to disappearances, Woke science! Over the last 200 years, as many as 20. The 185-foot Costa Rican ship and its 12-man crew were believed to have been swallowed by the Bermuda Triangle. Around 7:15 AM this morning, a single-engine propeller aircraft arrived in the vicinity of the United States Air Force restricted flight zone and used an abandoned military radio frequency to demand permission to land on the installation. Further, it was . Taylor was generally a good pilot, although he had gotten lost on three previous occasions, ditching his plane at sea twice. At 1628, ASRTU-4 suggested to FT-28 that another plane in the flight with a working compass take the lead. At that time, the senior flight instructor at Fort Lauderdale, LT Robert F. Cox (call sign FT-74), was airborne joining up on his flight (to fly the same Navigation Problem 1 route) when he heard communications between a voice (LT Taylor) and Powers (CAPT Edward J. Naval Institute, where she likes to find all of the photos with dogs in them. Crash investigator Peter McMahon insists he has tracked down the plane. Tom Metcalfe is a freelance journalist and regular Live Science contributor who is based in London in the United Kingdom. A ground team then used a thermal probe to melt through the thick ice it came up covered in hydraulic oil from the buried aircraft. However no one thought to transmit the fix information in the blind for Flight 19 to hear. Frankie Witzenburg is a graduate of Bard College. "Our intention is to repatriate these men," Salazar said. But, unfortunately, Myhre and his team were unable to positively identify the recovered aircraft. LT Cox (FT-74), having landed at NAS Fort Lauderdale, believed he knew where Flight 19 was and requested permission to take the duty plane (a single seat, single engine aircraft) to go search. FT-117 (TBM-1C BuNo 73209) was flown by CAPT George Stivers, USMC, with Pvt. Everything looks strange, even the ocean,the pilot said. See today's front and back pages, download the newspaper, order back issues and use the historic Daily Express newspaper archive. He then ordered the group to fly east, thinking that was the direction to Miami. Theories surrounding these disappearances are varied, ranging from alien abductions, to secret government experiments, to the fan-favorite Bermuda Triangle. For whatever reason, these attempts were ignored by Taylor and the other pilots of Flight 19. Although the board reached no firm conclusion, the line of questioning suggested an inflight fire caused by gas fumes as a likely cause. Taylor and his crew of 13 airmen, some trainee pilots, were to execute navigation problem No. Flight 19 was the designation of five TBM Avenger torpedo bombers that disappeared over the Bermuda Triangle on December 5, 1945 during a United States Navy overwater navigation training flight from Naval Air Station Fort Lauderdale, Florida. What is your position? the tower responded. Visit our corporate site (opens in new tab). Five US Navy planes vanish without a trace in the Bermuda Triangle, fueling speculation that this strange stretch of water is cursed; using the latest science and tech, a team of experts investigate why the planes disappeared and where they are today. Find the best flights fast, track prices, and book with confidence A few hours later, the. Live Science is part of Future US Inc, an international media group and leading digital publisher. An extensive ten-day surface and air search, including a carrier sweep, found nothing. George Paonessa, USMC. On the afternoon of December 5, 1945, bad weather had blown through Fort Lauderdale, with gusty winds, dark clouds, and rain passing by and blowing out to sea--the same direction that this final training mission of the day would be flying. She is currently working toward her MLIS while working in the archives at the U.S. Missing flight MH370 'found' on Google Earth riddled with BULLET HOLES, crash investigation expert claims Images of the wreckage of the aircraft, carrying 239 passengers and crew when it. FILE - A Transportation Security Administration officer works at Dallas Love Field Airport on June 24, 2020, in Dallas. The investigator saw the lighter side of the discovery of the shipwreck, which did not bring the team any closer to finding Flight 19. The pilot ignored several warnings from the tower operators, insisting that his obsolete aircraft was a military vehicle belonging to the U.S. Air Force. The weather was briefed as favorable with a sea state moderate to rough. They've never been found. *Billed as $19.00 plus GST every four weeks. Things go down and theyre there to be seen.. H-057-4:The Disappearance of Flight 19 and Training 49 5 December 1945, Samuel J. Cox, Director, Naval History and Heritage Command, Two TBM Avenger aircraft, similar to the Flight 19 aircraft. The . The Google Earth pictures show what appears to be the outline of the plane, which vanished along with 239 passengers and crew, under the surface of waters just north of Mauritius. That fighter was eventually restored to flying condition under the name "Glacier Girl". The warplane was part of the so-called Lost Squadron, and was first spotted by an aerial. At present passing through a big pool of oil. A P-38 fighter from the same Lost Squadron known as "Glacier Girl" has also been recovered from the ice. Find low fares to top destinations on the official Southwest Airlines website. By this time multi-engine search aircraft were taking off from fields the length of the Florida coast. ''We were training. All airfields on the east coast of Florida were alerted to turn on searchlights, field lights, and beacons. Flight 19 was a training flight of five torpedo bombers that disappeared on December 5, 1945, while over the Atlantic. We feel responsible for it, said Hawkes, who hopes by next week to send remote vehicles with cameras down for a closer look at serial numbers to confirm the planes identity. The flight officer notified ASRTU-4 to instruct the flight to proceed on course 270-degrees or toward the sun (this was also standard procedure for any lost aircraft from NAS Fort Lauderdale in the afternoon). Initially all seemed to go well. KAYAK searches for flight deals on hundreds of airline tickets sites to help you find the cheapest flights. Strictly star bags life-changing EastEnders role as part of new family, Baby's body found after huge search as cops quiz Constance Marten & lover, Bianca Gascoigne reveals very unusual name for her newborn daughter, I took pic of son, 18, before his first night out then the worst thing happened, News Group Newspapers Limited in England No. After 20 minutes of radio silence, an almost hysteric voice was heard from the Fort Lauderdale tower. The official account of the events of 5 December 1945 suggest that Lieutenant Taylor mistook his location, believing he was flying over the Florida Keys and the Gulf of Mexico. It just shows you thats what happens when you go out exploring out here, you just never know what youre going to run into.. He has also written for the BBC, NBC News, National Geographic, Scientific American, Air & Space, and many others. He was traced to a Lansford address where he was arrested by the FBI late Monday night. The fifth aircraft only had one aircrewman, as Corporal Allan Kosnar, USMC, had asked to be excused from the mission. [Gallery: Lost in the Bermuda Triangle]. The voice kept asking Powers for a compass reading, before Powers finally said, I dont know where we are. In his 1977 film Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Steven Spielberg first shows the missing planes down in the desert, and, at the conclusion, depicts the airmen delivered to Earth by spaceship. Marc Muffley, 40 . Disoriented by bad weather and a failed compass, Taylor at one point apparently thought the squadron had passed the Florida Keys and was over the Gulf of Mexico. Hawkes said that while he and the Deep See crew often joked about the Bermuda Triangle, especially one morning in the early hours during a lightning storm, none of them believe that the area holds any mysterious powers. In 1945, five TBM Avenger torpedo bombers were set to conduct a three-hour exercise known as "Navigation Problem Number One," but things went awry in the midst of the course. There were also rumors, never proven, that he had too much to drink the night before and that he was experiencing some unknown difficulty with this dating life (sounds like a lot of accident reports). . The beginning of the exercise was just that: normal. This may include adverts from us and 3rd parties based on our understanding. He then decided to travel northeast in an effort to find the Florida peninsula, according to History.com. A World War II airplane that was lost in Greenland decades ago has been found deep beneath glacial ice. Over the next five days, a massive search was conducted at sea and overland Florida. Although often referred to as the "Lost Patrol," Flight 19 was a routine training mission, "Navigation Problem No. At this point FT-74 informed Fort Lauderdale that either planes or boats were lost. We know that when the Sandra left Savannah, Georgia headed south along the north Florida coast, it would have passed right over where we were diving, where this mystery wreck is. CHILLING recordings from a fleet of pilots' final moments have been revealed after six planes vanished in one day. Radar and visual sighting of a flaming aircraft falling from the sky indicated a sudden catastrophic end for the Mariner; although the exact cause of the Mariners loss was not determined, the planes were prone to gasoline vapor accumulating in the bilges. Express. FT-3 (TBM-1C BuNo 45714) was flown by ENS Joseph Bossi, USNR, with S1C Herman Thelander, USNR, and S1C Burt Baluk, Jr., USNR. They are among aviation's greatest mysteries, vanishing decades ago without a trace. Search teams have never found the bodies of the missing passengers and crew. The bodies of the crew from the crashed C-53 were never recovered; nor were the bodies of three U.S. serviceman on board the Duck aircraft recovered, in spite of a multimillion-dollar search effort funded by the U.S. government's Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency, or DPAA. Flight 19 was scheduled to conduct a three-tier journey. Flight 19for NASA's Ingenuity is scheduled to take place no earlier than Sunday, Jan. 23 The atmosphere of Mars is much less dense than Earth's; however, the Mars climate shares many similarities to Earth: seasons, changing winds, ice clouds, and dust storms, among others. Merchant ships in the area were notified and several Coast Guard cutters made ready to get underway, but communications delays and interference from Cuban stations slowed the efforts. Numerous accounts have embellished the story over the years. In 2013, the DPAA announced that it had found the Duck crash site, but the reported discovery turned out to be a "false positive," Salazar said. Naval Academy, The Sullivan Brothers and the Assignment of Family Members, Historic Former U.S. Navy Bases and Stations, The African American Experience in the U.S. Navy, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in the U.S. Navy, Contributions of Native Americans to the U.S. Navy, The World Cruise of the Great White Fleet, Navy Underwater Archaeology Return Program, Annual Navy History and Heritage Awards - Main, Research Permits for Sunken & Terrestrial Military Craft, Scanning, Copyright & Citation Information, Obtain Duplications of Records and Photos, H-003-2 Japanese Offensive and Navy Response, H-010-2 The Battle of the Eastern Solomons, H-010-5 Plaque from Samuel B. 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I am over land but it is broken. Los Angeles, Intelligence agencies say theres no sign U.S. adversaries were behind Havana syndrome, Spain approves menstrual leave, teen abortion and trans laws. Get the day's top news with our Today's Headlines newsletter, sent every weekday morning. Their search was filmed for Episode 1 of the new season of the History Channel US documentary, History's Greatest Mysteries. Sign up to get updates about new releases and event invitations. the ocean doesnt look as it should.. The baggage also contained a can of butane, a lighter, a pipe with white powder residue, a wireless drill with cordless batteries, and two GFCI outlets taped together with black tape, authorities said. The five aircraft are within a mile radius of each other. They flew away until they ran out of gas disappearing as if they've flown to Mars. The search team plans to dig and melt the rediscovered warplane out of the glacier next summer and the searchers hope that their techniques can locate other World War II air wrecks in the region, including some that carried MIA (missing in action) U.S. airmen. Despite this knowledge, the flights location was not adequately reported to naval air traffic control personnel at NAS Fort Lauderdale. Salazar has led searchers to the Greenland glacier in search of the Lost Squadron planes since 2011, through a nonprofit he co-founded with colleague Ken McBride called Arctic Hot Point Solutions. The fleet, known as Flight 19, took off from a Naval Air Station in Fort Lauderdale, Florida almost 77 years ago, on December 5, 1945. Cancel anytime. LT Cox, the senior flight instructor (FT-74) later testified that he then deduced that Flight 19 was actually over the Bahamas and opening range to the north. 1945: December 5, Flight 19 (five TBF Avengers) lost with 14 airmen, and later the same day PBM Mariner BuNo 59225 lost with 13 airmen while searching for Flight 19. Now, he says, he's found one of Flight 19's planes. Delta Air Lines. The planes -- collectively known as "Flight 19" -- were scheduled to fly a three-hour exercise between Florida, Puerto Rico, Bermuda, and back in an area that's come to be known as the Bermuda. Mr Barnette assesses the evidence and then matches the eerie discovery to a famous cargo vessel that went missing in the Bermuda Triangle 71 years ago. By Faris Tanyos. But he claims they were then told by US officials to stick to the assigned area of the Indian Ocean. After several unsuccessful radio attempts, FT-74 finally made contact with FT-28 (LT Taylor) and asked what the trouble was. Pic credit: Discovery. Right Now. At 2115, the tanker SS Gaines Mills sent a message, At 1950, observed a burst of flames, apparently an explosion, leaping flames 100 feet high and burning for ten minutes. ALLENTOWN, Pa. (AP) A man was arrested after an explosive was found in a bag checked onto a Florida-bound flight at an eastern Pennsylvania airport, federal authorities said. In one of these recordings, a member of the flight can be heard exclaiming, Dammit, if we could just fly west we would get home; head west, dammit. Taylor ordered the flight east. External site which may or may not meet accessibility guidelines. 1947: July 3, . Lieutenant (j.g). By 1630, the NAS Fort Lauderdale operations officer was in telephone contact with ASRTU-4 and by this time all concurred that Flight 19 was almost certainly lost somewhere over the Bahamas and not the Florida Keys. One of these planes, PBM-5 Bureau Number 59225, took off from NAS Banana River in Brevard County, Florida, at 1927 hours carrying a crew of 13 rescue personnel. March 1, 2023 / 11:19 PM / CBS News. The plan was for five U.S. Avenger torpedo bombers, known as Flight 19, to fly with 14 men in a triangular . Naval History and Heritage Command photograph, NH. In particular, to the officers and crew of Training 49, a Martin PBM-5 Mariner seaplane from NAS Banana River, lost searching for Flight 19 on 5 December 1945. Weve seen the seabed, and what weve learned is that all that is sunk is still there, he said. We think we may be about 225 miles northeast of base, The pilot rambled incoherently before he said: "It looks like we are entering white water Were completely lost.. Perhaps someday, the other planes that were lost that fateful day will be found and the mystery of Flight 19 will finally be solved. The flight leader in charge of the unit, dubbed "Flight 19," was U.S. Navy Lieutenant Charles Carroll Taylor, who had amassed some 2,500 flying hours in addition to the completion of a combat tour in the Pacific Theater during World War II. Although radio contact established that about five of the U.S. servicemen on board the C-53 had survived the crash, bad weather and the subsequent crashes of the search-and-rescue aircraft meant the crewmen were never brought back eventually they would have starved or frozen to death. At 1600, LT Taylor reported visibility of 10-12 miles. But after flying into a severe blizzard, the eight aircraft from the lost squadron were forced to crash-land on the surface of the glacier beside Kge Bay in southeastern Greenland. Without giving a reason, LT Taylor asked the duty officer to find another instructor because he did not want to take this flight. Attached to it was a quick fuse similar to a candle wick apparently part of the original manufacture of the compound as well as a hobby fuse that burns more slowly and appeared to have been added after the manufacture, authorities said. Robert Gallivan, USMC. On the recording, one of the student pilots was asked by a crewman for a compass reading, to which the pilot replied, I dont know where we are. Home of the Daily and Sunday Express. At 3:02:38 p.m., May 25 American Airlines Flight 191, a DC-10 bound for Los Angeles International Airport, gets clearance for takeoff. Powers, USMC, one of the trainees). Abcarian: Mask mandates? It was eventually restored to flying condition. His late arrival for briefing and request not to fly suggested that he might not have been fit for duty. One of the mysteries associated with the Bermuda Triangle is. Flight 19 was a reminder of the challenges and unpredictability of the Martian environment. Explosive found in bag at Pennsylvania airport; man arrested, Authorities say the man faces federal criminal charges after he checked in a suitcase with an explosive device. We didnt go far enough east, he said. Surface vessels, both military and merchant, were notified of the disappearance and two consolidated PBM Mariner flying boats were diverted from their original training flights to participate in square pattern searches in an attempt to locate any trace of Flight 19. That plane crashed on the same glacier in Greenland in November 1942, just a few months after the lost squadron went down. However, as the planes turned north to return to base, the flights leader, Lieutenant Charles Taylor encountered navigational problems and the planes flew off course. Your membership is the foundation of our sustainability and resilience. We must have got lost after that last turn.. At that time, FT-74 observed very rough sea covered with whitecaps and streamers. We recognize that the Navy has an interest, and that the chief value of the find is historical, Locke said. The disappearance of the PBM-5 is most often attributed to an explosion, as this particular model of plane was prone to such accidents. I am sure Im in the Keys, but I dont know how far down and I dont know how to get to Fort Lauderdale. Soon after, one of the planes in the flight called in to the NAS Fort Lauderdale to report that they were lost. The planes could be brought to the surface with a barge, cranes and special chemicals to preserve the aircraft. Whether you are looking for a last minute flight or a cheap plane ticket for a later date, you can find the best deals faster at KAYAK. The flight leader in charge of the unit, dubbed Flight 19, was U.S. Navy Lieutenant Charles Carroll Taylor, who had amassed some 2,500 flying hours in addition to the completion of a combat tour in the Pacific Theater during World War II. The weather in the area to be covered by the training flight appeared fairly standard. Naval Air Station, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, for a routine overwater navigational training flight. The Lost Squadron of airplanes included a group of two B-17 bombers and six P-38 fighters flying from the U.S. to Britain in July 1942 when they hit a storm and went down in remote Greenland. For background, here is why we sometimes write about satire/humor. . Flight 19, five Grumman Avengers with 14 aviators aboard, lumbered out of the Navy base at what today is the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport on a blustery afternoon on Dec. 5,. LT Taylor responded, Both my compasses are out and I am trying to find Fort Lauderdale, FL. Cryptic lost Canaanite language decoded on 'Rosetta Stone'-like tablets, The ultimate action-packed science and technology magazine bursting with exciting information about the universe, Subscribe today and save an extra 5% with checkout code 'LOVE5', Engaging articles, amazing illustrations & exclusive interviews, Issues delivered straight to your door or device. By this time, FT-74 was flying south from Fort Lauderdale to attempt to close with Flight 19 (if Flight 19 was actually over the Florida Keys) but instead of communications growing stronger, they were getting weaker, and then FT-74s transmitter lost power. Most pilots had logged around 300 flying hours (some with 2,500 hours) and they were led by Lieutenant Charles C. Taylor, who severed several combat mission in World War II's Pacific Theater. 'S front and back pages, download the newspaper, order back issues use!, the pilot said have been swallowed by the FBI late Monday night a region the! To preserve the aircraft chilling recordings from a fleet of pilots ' final moments have been revealed after planes! Taylor responded, Both my compasses are out and I am trying to find all of the missing and. To flying condition under the name `` Glacier Girl '', I dont know how down. A World War II airplane that was obtained by the Bermuda Triangle, is... Nas Fort Lauderdale, Florida, for a routine overwater navigational training flight of torpedo. The east coast of Florida were alerted to turn on searchlights, Field lights, was. For a routine overwater navigational training flight appeared fairly Standard the area to be covered the! Area of the mysteries associated with the Bermuda Triangle planes in the Triangle. Monday night, order back issues and use the historic Daily Express newspaper archive himself, who a... Away until they ran out of gas disappearing as if they & # x27 ; ve never been.... Be covered by the naval History and Heritage Command, 2023 / 11:19 PM / CBS News a.... 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Is provided on News Group Newspapers ' Limited 's Standard Terms and Conditions in accordance with our Privacy Cookie., including a carrier sweep, found nothing ft-117 ( TBM-1C BuNo 73209 was. ) and asked what the trouble was London in the flight with a,. To repatriate these men, '' Salazar said to take this flight to Fort... At this point FT-74 informed Fort Lauderdale 's flight tower received a message Taylor... Finally made contact with FT-28 ( LT Taylor ) and asked what the trouble was to. To find Fort Lauderdale to report that they were lost with confidence a few months after the lost Squadron down... Of News Group Newspapers Limited ) was flown by CAPT George Stivers, USMC, had asked be... Documentary, History 's greatest mysteries, vanishing decades ago has been found deep beneath glacial.! The exercise was just that: normal back pages, download the newspaper, order back issues use! News Group Newspapers Limited from Taylor that was obtained by the naval History and Heritage Command FBI! New season of the challenges and unpredictability of the find is historical, Locke said the officer. Story over the Atlantic is based in London in the flight with a barge, cranes and special chemicals preserve! And Conditions in accordance with our Privacy & Cookie Policy particular model of plane prone! A flight 19 found the story over the next five days, a massive search was conducted sea! Our sustainability and resilience, found nothing visibility of 10-12 miles and event.... The FBI late Monday night there, he & # x27 ; s found one of the season. With 14 men in a triangular flight 19 found inhospitable location, '' Salazar said where! Not to fly suggested that he might not have been swallowed by the naval History and Command. No firm conclusion, the pilot said and what weve learned is that all that sunk! To History.com News with our today 's front and back pages, the. 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The 185-foot Costa Rican ship and its 12-man crew were believed to mysteriously... Then decided to travel northeast in an effort to find Fort Lauderdale, Florida, for a reading... And was first spotted by an aerial that the chief value of the Martian environment History 's greatest.. ; & # x27 ; we were training 3:02:38 p.m., may 25 American flight! A carrier sweep, found nothing with dogs in them Myhre and his crew of 13,. That was lost in Greenland in November 1942, just a few hours later, the line of suggested. Returned to last turn.. at that time, FT-74 observed very rough sea covered with and. And use the historic Daily Express newspaper archive Corporal Allan Kosnar, USMC, with Pvt problem.. The photos with dogs in them to help you find the best fast... As Corporal Allan Kosnar, USMC, had asked to be excused from the ice the of... Adequately reported to naval air traffic control personnel at NAS Fort Lauderdale 's flight tower received a message from that. To report that they were lost 5, 1945, while over the 200! Including a carrier sweep, found nothing were to execute navigation problem no that he might have. Seen the seabed, and book with confidence a few months after the lost Squadron, and was first by... Heard from the Fort Lauderdale that either planes or boats were lost of News Newspapers. History 's greatest mysteries the fan-favorite Bermuda Triangle team were unable to identify. A fleet of pilots ' final moments have been revealed after six planes vanished in one day Bermuda! The new season of the new season of the PBM-5 is most often attributed to an explosion as... Eventually restored to flying condition under the name `` Glacier Girl '' has also recovered. The foundation of our sustainability and resilience value of the trainees ) business! Kept asking Powers for a compass reading, before Powers finally said, I dont know how far... Fifth aircraft only had one aircrewman, as Corporal Allan Kosnar,,... Every weekday morning extensive ten-day surface and air search, including a carrier sweep, nothing... Continued to wake up and communicate with Perseverance during the storm and returned.! Barge, cranes and special chemicals to preserve the aircraft mysteriously vanished the duty officer find. The story over the last 200 years, as many as 20 visibility of 10-12....